Art Yap

Tina Crawford
Theme Song: [00:00:00] This is an art. Yap. It is an art. Yap. We're talking art. Yap. Ity y art.
Artfully, artfully, artfully, artfully. Yap. Yap. Yap. It's time.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Write it down on real paper with a real pencil and watch shit. Get real. I'm Shawna Vesco Ahern, and this is Art Yap. The podcast where I gab with Bay Area creatives about imagination, arts, culture, and everything in between. This week's guest is Tina Wiley Crawford, recruitment manager at the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco.
She's also a talented graphic [00:01:00] designer, a champion for youth programs, and by her own words, a Swiss Army knife of skills. In this episode, we talk about why claiming artist can feel weird, why thank you. Notes still matter, and how to get your foot in the door without selling your soul or starving. Plus, we talk about cake decorating cool tables and how field trips actually change lives.
You'll laugh. You'll get inspired and maybe you'll shoot your shot at that arts job you've been eyeing. Please support art Yap by rating and reviewing. Let's get into it.
alright, well welcome to Art Yap. Uh, thank you so much for being on my show. I was super nervous to ask you
Tina Wiley Crawford: what
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Yeah. Because I had only met you sort of through a recruitment cycle at the De Young, but when I looked at your LinkedIn, I saw.
Graphic design work. I saw an arts criticism degree and I saw that you were in like teen program management at De Young before that. And I thought there are some [00:02:00] stories here, but I know that sort of HR-e recruitment people are notoriously, what's the word I'm looking for? It's not shy. It's like reserved.
Mm-hmm. And so I was like, will she be able to tell me. Tell me all the stories, gimme all the chitchat.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Not all of it exactly, but I can, I can definitely share different anecdotes from my life. 'cause I've had a lot of different jobs and. Done a lot of different things. So yeah.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: And we'll get into your recruitment management stuff and working for fine arts museums in a bit, but I do wanna hear about you growing up and when did you first realize you were creative?
What were early hobbies or obsessions or things you just did that brought you joy from your imagination?
Tina Wiley Crawford: Um. Wow. I didn't really, okay, so when you sent me this question, I didn't really think about it too hard. 'cause I've also been reading the Artist's Way and it's requiring me to really go back and think about just kind of like different [00:03:00] art experiences in my life.
But like,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: this podcast came out of the Artist's way. I was
reading
it earlier this year. It's so crazy. Oh, oh wow. Yeah. Whoa. Okay. The synchronicity. Yeah. Full circle. There we go.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Okay. Okay. Uh, alumni here. Yeah. Well, you're an alumni. I'm. Still a student still on the path. Yep. Yeah. Um, so I don't know. I mean, I guess I kind of think of what my, like family says.
Like they're like, you've always been creative. I don't think I've ever really seen it that way. Mm-hmm. Like, it's just kind of like I'm living my life. Oh, we got a class project and I just put a lot of effort into it and like, wow, it's one of the more popular ones,
Okay. So in kindergarten I was at a private school in Oakland. It's called Sacred Heart. Mm-hmm. I think it's still there. It might have a different name. It's by MacArthur Bart and. You know, I was a pretty strong reader. And at the end of the school year or something like that, they put on like a play, like the little [00:04:00] red, the little red hen or whatever.
Oh, cute. And um, me and this other girl were like. She was chosen as the lead, but I really wanted it too. And I remember that was kind of like my first like school experience of being like crying about something I really wanted. Aw. And so like they decided to compromise and have us both be the lead.
Mm-hmm. Um, I remember the last line, 'cause we had it on like. Camcorder or whatever, like mm-hmm. She did it by herself and she did it with no help. Great to remember. Also, might not have been great as far as being an eldest child, only daughter, um, because I feel like, wow, maybe that part wasn't good, but like that's the first time I remember kind of like being on stage and then like at some point I remember going to.
Church with my mom and like who was really popular at the time. Um. Kirk Franklin.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Mm-hmm.
Tina Wiley Crawford: And yeah, I remember like her sister, [00:05:00] my auntie, like, and like, you know, were like, you know, come, come to church with us. You know, Chrissy could be in the choir. Don't call me Chrissy. Don't. That's my was gonna say, that's my family name.
That is a family name. I am Tina in these streets.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Noted.
Tina Wiley Crawford: But, um, so I joined the choir and then this. The choir director. I remember like I just got turned off at a church for some reason. Mm-hmm. They told me a story that was like for kids' church, and it was kind of like a scary story. It was like, why am I away?
Like, oh, all the kids go away from your parents. Like we now we're in this weird basement. Like, no. Oh, why are we talking about Jesus wife or somebody? God's wife turned around and turned into a pillar of salt. Like that was like a scary ass story.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Biblical
stuff is too far. It goes too far.
Tina Wiley Crawford: It does. I mean, I know there's lessons in there, but it was just like, as a first impression, like this is terrifying.
Yeah. But, um, yeah, I remember being in the choir and then like, you know, we kind of like stopped going to the church and then the choir director would call all the time being like, she [00:06:00] is so good at singing, she should be like, please, we need her. She like. Does so well and I just didn't think I was like, I, I was just doing what they told me to do.
Yeah. And I didn't really like, believe in myself. Mm-hmm. So I think a lot of it, like there's a lot of moments and burst of creativity or like recognizing that, but also pushing that aside. 'cause like a lot of what's happened in the media, or like a lot of what we see in our society is like, oh, do you wanna be a starving artist?
Mm-hmm. Oh, like. You know, these people like, kind of like suffer or like they're really wild or on the fringes of society. Mm-hmm. Like depending on like where you come from and what you do, it's just like, I don't wanna be a part of that. Like, that doesn't sound fun. Like I don't wanna starve. Like
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Yeah.
You're not the first person to cite this. By the way, I've been having conversations with the people about calling themselves artists. And a lot of people really hesitate to do that for a number of reasons, but one of them is they felt like they don't fit the stereotype of [00:07:00] like the starving artist or like the wackadoodle, whatever.
And so there's this, there's a lot of weird things built into the word artist that kind of pushes people away from saying it, I guess.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Yeah. And so, you know, just throughout like. K through 12 always did different, like artsy things. Mm-hmm. In high school
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I did cake decorating.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Ooh. See now that's something I want to do next.
I think that's on my list of like, imagine, like, imagine lives or careers. It's like I would, I would,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: you need to get on TikTok because
there are some talented people on TikTok doing time lapses of their cake decorating. Mm-hmm. And my great aunt Fran, she brought me down to Tanforan and we did cake decorating classes when I was like seven over here.
That was like decades ago. Oh, okay.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Because I was kind of looking for one
recently, even though my mother-in-law does make cakes. Mm-hmm. Like if she decorates them and stuff, it's just, you know, like. I feel like that's one of the things, like she's in her studio. Mm-hmm. She's making her money. You know, when I, when I go to her house, she is like in the zone.
It's not a time to be like, can I try, [00:08:00] can
you show me how to do that? She's like, no. Get outta the way. Yeah. She's like,
girl, I gotta go deliver this. I gotta deliver this cake in a minute. Like,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I mean, so I kind of identify with that. Like, I always dabbled in things like beads and just, I always liked color and I always like.
Craft and using my hands. But I never thought I was any kind of creative in a way. I thought, oh, don't we all just sort of do that? Or maybe, mm-hmm. I thought it was like an age group thing. I don't really know. Um, but how did it for you kind of progress when you got into that education arena? Or they start making you declare things about yourself?
Declare a major, that word declare. You gotta declare what's up.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Yeah. Well. I have a lot of different interests and so I went to uc, Santa Cruz, and when I went in it was like, I'm gonna do public health. 'cause in high school I was a part of their like health. Mm-hmm. Peer health group or whatever, taught like sex ed and classes and stuff.
And so they had like. I forgot what they called it at Santa Cruz, but it had another thing where they were like,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I'm a banana slug
too, by the way. This is crazy. It's like [00:09:00] we planned this
Tina Wiley Crawford: slugs always find a way. That's true. We have a trail.
So you got there for public health?
Yeah. So I got there for public health and then I was like, okay, I'm gonna do psychology.
'cause I always was interested in psychology and then psychology like in class, like high school class a year oh eight, like. One of the biggest graduating classes ever or something. Mm-hmm. And then, so there's not a lot of classes everybody's, you know, trying to like.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: That was me at SF State at the same moment.
It was impossible to get into psych. Yeah, yeah,
Tina Wiley Crawford: yeah. It was impossible. And so I was able to get in some, but then at one point, I think like spring quarter, it was just like, all right, I'm not really able to get in some of these classes. Let me see what other gen eds are out there. Mm-hmm. And so I was like, oh, there's these like art history ones, they kind of knock out like four or five different gen eds at one time.
Mm-hmm. So let me take these. And I was like, Ooh. Also, they're like, later in the day, this is, ooh, this is, this is gonna be a nice semester. Um, and so [00:10:00] yeah, I took this like history of art and visual culture class on like European art. Mm-hmm. And for like, maybe like 10, 15 minutes, he started talking about like Istanbul and Aga Sophia.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Mm-hmm.
Tina Wiley Crawford: And. I like the history behind it of how like, oh is this Christian place? And then all of a sudden, like some Muslim folks came in and within a week it was taken over and the church was be, became the great mosque. And I was just like, I have never heard this story in my life. You were in the front row of popcorn.
I was, I like what this all happened. And also because I didn't grow up reading the Bible, like a lot of stuff in European art is based on like. You know, Christian religious stories. So sometimes I'm just like, yeah, I don't know exact, like people are like, yeah, a kain and Abel and all this. And I'm like, mm-hmm.
Cool, cool. But that one just like really captured my attention. And then also that professor, he like would show pictures of him in those places. Mm-hmm. And I was just like, really enthralled. Wow. And I was just like, oh, I have [00:11:00] to get there somehow. I don't know how I'm gonna do it. And so like. A year or two later, like I think a professor of mine or something, like I mentioned, I want to go and they were like, you have to go.
Like, 'cause they knew I was the eldest child. Mm-hmm. I have a brother that's 11 years younger than me. I have a father that like, has a lot of health problems. So like very big on like being a caregiver and being a provider of and sorts. And so they were just like, you, you gotta do this. Mm-hmm. And then so I was like.
Okay. And then I signed up for, I applied for this scholarship with like the Turkish Coalition of America. Nice. I didn't think I was gonna get anything. I was just like, oh yeah, here's one of those millions of like, I don't know, scholarship things mm-hmm. That they send out, like, and I'm not gonna get it.
They gave me a lot of money to go to study a Turkey for a summer.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Look at you. This is so serendipitous. Yes. Everything you're doing is just like working out. Yeah.
Tina Wiley Crawford: And so, yeah, I got to really like. I don't know, just like immerse myself in the culture there and [00:12:00] really enjoy the art. And then when I came back I was just like, oh, I'm really enjoying this.
Like I'm gonna continue to take like art history classes. This is my minor.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: You got sucked in. Yep.
Tina Wiley Crawford: It was a minor. Yeah. And then I was like, well, I'm like five cl, three or four classes away from a major mine as well. Just do it. And so I did it and Okay,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: wait, but you're family right now. They're hearing this and they're like, don't do it.
They're like, this isn't a career, this isn't money in there. Or what are they saying to you?
Tina Wiley Crawford: Well, it was kind of like, as long as you do psychology, like, you know, make that the bread and butter, I guess. Mm-hmm. And this is like the fun, passionate thing that you do. 'cause we know you've always been kind of like
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Yeah.
In
Tina Wiley Crawford: the arts and stuff.
And so, yeah, like, I think, 'cause they were just like, okay, look at you. Go like, wow. And then I ended up studying Barbados and then mm-hmm. During my study abroad and Barbados, I like studied like art and you know, dance of the Caribbean.
Mm-hmm. And so another immersive experience. I didn't call myself an artist or I think I might've said like I'm a [00:13:00] creative. Mm-hmm. And a lot of men that met me at the time would be like, you. You are like ery Badu.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Thank you. But could you tell me more about that? Like
Tina Wiley Crawford: Ery Badu, Jill
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Scott.
Tina Wiley Crawford: So that was my kinda like, okay.
Mm-hmm. All right, cool. I guess I give that neo soul vibe. I listen to them a lot, so Cool. Cool. But I wanna say I didn't really call myself an artist, or at least a creative, I wanna say it was steps. It was like first being told, like being like, I'm creative. I am a creative. Mm-hmm. I'm a creative because I do a lot of different things.
I love ceramics. I, I like painting, I like doing this. I really love teaching art, all this other stuff. Mm-hmm. I don't really have like, I don't like a jack of all trades or a Jill of all trades. Someone recently called me, um. A Swiss Army knife, which sounds way more cool. Yeah,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: that's cute. That's cute
Tina Wiley Crawford: and cool.
Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like I'm a badass. Like, whoop, whoop, like what you need. Am I opening up a bottle? Am I like [00:14:00] unlocking something? What are we doing? It's like, as long as you know how to use this tool, like the possibilities are endless. I'm not calling myself a tool. 'cause that's weird. I'm not, I'm a, I'm a real person, but just like understanding like, oh, you have a lot of different skills.
They could be applied all these different ways. Mm-hmm. And so first. You know, I was comfortable calling myself a creative. Mm-hmm. I, you know, started teaching as a health educator.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Okay.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Uh, kept that up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Like I graduated and then the peop I kept in contact with the folks. That I did like peer health ed from high school.
And then they're like, do you want to intern? My friend has this like startup thing. Mm-hmm. And they're working in schools in San Francisco. Do you wanna intern with them? Which then becomes a job. And I'm like, sure. Mm-hmm. Um, and so then I'm like. You know, working with kids in, you know, different gardens and making food.
Mm-hmm. Uh, and it was my role to also make the lesson plans and Instagram was pretty new at the time too, so I would also like post things. [00:15:00] And so the best way for me to connect what the kids were growing and learning about and the environment was. Talk about like food and culture. Mm-hmm. Um, and I would also incorporate art into that.
Like, yeah. So we're making mezze wat and it's from Ethiopia. This is where Ethiopia is, here's what some of the art looks like, here's what grows here. Mm-hmm. And the person that ran that program was just like, like. Oh, you're really, this, you really shine at this. Like, let me introduce you to someone from my church that works at the museums.
The museums are the de Young and Legion of honor. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, oh,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: okay.
Tina Wiley Crawford: And so, um, sure.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Universe is what you have next for me. Yeah.
Tina Wiley Crawford: And so we don't meet there. We meet across the street at Cal Academy. So shout out to Cal Academy for having great place to eat. Um, and so. Her neighbor that she went to church with, he was a former like security officer there.
Mm-hmm. And his son at the [00:16:00] time was working there. And so he came along and I remember he was like. He was on his lunch break and he really just trying to eat like, and then it was just like, well tell him what you're interested in and what you want to do. I'm like, oh, I really wanna work with like youth and teens and teach art and I think it'd be great to be in a museum and help do that.
Like this is very healing for me too. 'cause I didn't really get a lot of opportunities to go on field trips to like museums and stuff. I think for sure in my entire. K through 12 experience. I might've went on two. Mm-hmm. Like field trips, which sounds so crazy. But yeah, that was my month.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: That's that's about right.
Yeah. For you as well. Oh, okay. I feel like
Tina Wiley Crawford: other people are like, oh really? I went like two a year. I'm like, oh. Went like,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: well maybe now the younger crowd. 'cause we've been working hard. To get arts education in action. Mm-hmm. And I know fourth graders roll through Recology. Mm-hmm. Um, for their artist residence program, they teach fourth graders about recycling through that artist program.
So Yeah. It's because of our labor that you, the younger generation have more field trips to art stuff
Tina Wiley Crawford: [00:17:00] Yes. And more people that come to your class mm-hmm. And teach art. Um, and so. Yeah, I met him and then he, like, he was eating something and he like looked up and I noticed his face from like talking to my dad while he's eating.
It was like, just like, oh, you kind of, he want to eat. Yeah. And you kind of like talking a lot. Mm-hmm. And then he is like, I know somebody, Sheila like, perfect. She runs education. Like, uh, I'll introduce you to her. And I was like, oh. Okay. Mm-hmm. And so then I met with, um, Sheila, she still is the director of education Wow.
At the Fine Arts Museums. She's been there a very long time. Mm-hmm. Um, and so, yeah, I was talking to her about what I want to do and I said something about like, oh, she was describing this program called the Museum Ambassador Program. Mm-hmm. And it was, and basically what it was, is it took. You know, basically five to 16 from different high schools across the city.
They all came to the de Young, got some training, and then went out into like different [00:18:00] classrooms and led different art projects. And so I was like, yeah, that's something I would like to lead one day day. Yeah. And then she was like, mm, I can't give you that job, but I could definitely, you know, help you get an internship.
Mm-hmm. 'cause they're interviewing right now. And she like pointed it.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Yeah.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Like they're interviewing right now. And I was like, oh, okay, well yeah. Let's do it. Mm-hmm. And so then I found myself. FI did the interview. Mm-hmm. I got it. You know, fortunately I was able to maintain my part-time job as a health educator while interning for free.
Mm-hmm. We have done our best to change that. Yeah. I will say like we do offer paid internships now after That's great. Because it's really hard
Shawna Vesco Ahern: to juggle all that. Yeah. Yeah.
Tina Wiley Crawford: And it's a hard to expect someone to be like, Hey, do you have, like, the bay is so expensive when it comes to like pub, like public transportation.
Yeah. Especially Bart is like, Hey, do you have. Damn near $20 a day to like, come here for free. It is like, no, no, not at all. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, that's how I got my foot in the door. [00:19:00] Um, I enjoyed it. I remember it was a. Ex exhibition on like African sculpture called Embodiments. Mm-hmm. And then they really enjoyed working with me too.
And then I went on to, um, become like a program assistant mm-hmm. For a summer. And then, you know, they found some room in the budget and then it like extended into the school year. Then I was promoted into like a coordinator role for a while as team programs coordinator and then, you know, I ended my career as team programs manager.
It was. I mean it was interim. But That's
Shawna Vesco Ahern: interesting though that you like grew as the program grew. Mm-hmm. And you already said one thing, which is getting funded internships, but what do you think museums in general, or where you work, what did they do well that like really supports connecting the youth with art and museum culture?
Tina Wiley Crawford: Hmm. What does our museum do well, or just museum general or museums in general? Either way, I would say. [00:20:00] Hmm. I think hiring, teaching artists that come from different diverse backgrounds has really, really helped a lot. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, if you have a homogeneous like teaching artist group, let's say they're all of a certain age.
Mm-hmm. Or all of a certain background, like, you know, it kind of. I don't wanna say it keeps things stale, but it keeps things the same. Mm-hmm. Because, you know, it's kind of like everyone had similar experiences or similar upbringings, or a similar perspective, or similar like things that they studied. But once you know, folks started broadening out and being like, oh, this person is a culture bearer.
They may not have. You know, gone to Julliard and all these other things. They went to community college. Mm-hmm. Or they're self-taught and now they have their own following. They have all these workshops, let's hire them, let's bring them into the museum. And I think. By opening that up.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Mm-hmm.
Tina Wiley Crawford: You're able to get a bigger kind of idea of like, who are the, like what are the demographics of the city?
Like, [00:21:00] okay, this person is connected to this group. They're gonna tell this group, Hey, I work here, you should come through, Hey school, I do this, I could come here. Um, and it really just like creates a really beautiful ecosystem of like, I don't know, of just like very authentic and genuine, like, um.
Community building and like understanding that we create, you know, relationships through art. 'cause I, I do identify as an introvert. Mm-hmm. And like for me, making art is like an easy way of like. You know, starting a conversation like I'll mm-hmm. If there's a, like if we had this whole table and we're all doing an art project, and I walk in and I start doing my thing, and then it's like, oh, can you pass me that?
Or, oh, that looks cool, and mm-hmm. Then it's like naturally you start opening yourself up and then next thing you know, you're having conversations around a table where if it's like, you know, we're just in here and let's say we're all, I don't know, just on our laptops doing our thing, it's kind of like, I don't, [00:22:00] I don't wanna ask you anything like, oh, can you.
Yeah, there's no access point. Yeah. Like, can you pass me the pen? Thanks for the pen. Like, but when you're making art and it's like, oh wow. Oh, how did you do that? Or, oh, what, what's this over here? And then when you start bringing in different culture, this becomes so multilayered and so beautiful of like, wow, I didn't, this is similar to this culture.
Mm-hmm. Oh, wow. I, you know, I didn't know. You know, you person over there and your culture did this, some, something similar to what I, well, what I'm thinking right now is, um, totally kinda like off the beaten path, but related, but, um, do sidebar me? Yeah. Okay. So what, what I'm thinking of is I went to Mexico City of, oh my God, like 10 years ago.
Um, an intern actually connected me. I went on my first solo trip. My, one of my interns connected me to their friends and family out there. Oh, that's
Shawna Vesco Ahern: nice. Yeah. So then you have a landing pad, like, yes, it
Tina Wiley Crawford: was so great. But, um, [00:23:00] and so one of her friends, or a friend of a friend ended up coming up to the bay to do some kind of project and so.
You know, it was like, oh, well let's get together. Let me show you around. Mm-hmm. And so I ended up taking him to an Ethiopian restaurant in Oakland and like, 'cause it was just something very different than what he's done. Yeah, for sure. In San Francisco so far. Yeah. And so I remember him being like, like looking around.
'cause you know, they got dope art, cool textiles. You know, you're eating with your hands. I was gonna say the
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Jira comes
Tina Wiley Crawford: out. Yeah. You're like, what? It's community style. And then I remember him just being like. You know, this is very similar and different from like Mexican culture, like mm-hmm. A lot of these colors, the way you're eating, like how you're putting something, it's not a tortilla, but you're putting something.
Mm-hmm. You know, your stuffing food in it, it very much reminds me of home and it makes me really think about how through art and culture we can find out the things that make us similar and different things that we're just like, wow, like I didn't know I could find this [00:24:00] home within a home. Mm-hmm. And like to see this kind of like.
I don't know, kind of like, not a openness, but kind of like seeing like things click for him with just like, mm-hmm. Oh, this reminds me of this from home. This reminds me of that from home. Oh, this, even though this is in East Africa and you know, this is my first time having this food. It feels so familiar and that.
That's the best part about making art.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I mean, you have this rigorous philosophy of like building community through art and conversation, and you're well-trained in art criticism and this kind of cross-disciplinary, um, move to bring people together. And I know you do graphic design on top of that, how do all of these qualities and traits and knowledges that you have play into your current role as a recruitment manager?
Right. And like, great question. Or maybe some of them don't, or maybe some of them pop up in funny ways for you.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Mm-hmm. Uh, I, hmm. So when I was doing teen [00:25:00] programs mm-hmm. I did a lot of, you know, outreach and recruitment, like being at different high schools tabling, being like, Hey, you like, basically.
Knowing what I looked like in high school, emo artsy, theater esque, choir esque black girl. Being like, where are my similar awkward people at? And being able to like draw them and being like, Hey, do you want to just like have a job where you're making art with kids and like seeing them kind of like, they're like,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: yes.
Like, oh,
Tina Wiley Crawford: that's a thing. Like you could get outta class too. Well, you gotta make up your classwork, but you can get outta class. Um. And so that's, you know, kind of how I got my footing mm-hmm. With recruitment, because I did it so much with them. And then like, I was working a lot with HR because we would hire, at one point we had like three different teen programs.
but basically, um, I just had a lot of experience of like hiring people a lot. Yeah. And so, like, because I'm working with youth and, you know, they gotta get a lot of permissions from their parents. Mm-hmm. [00:26:00] You know, and then me and my, like, I am a.
Libra Sun. Mm-hmm. But I am a Virgo Moon and rising. So
Shawna Vesco Ahern: thank you for alerting us all. This is critical information
to our analysis of you during this episode. Continue.
Tina Wiley Crawford: So, my Virgo ness was very, and also just me kind of like being an introvert, not wanting to go back and forth with things was just like, what forms do they need to sign?
Can I highlight things? Can I make like a little, like, can we have like a little to-do list of something creative
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Project management Yes. Came out?
Tina Wiley Crawford: Yes. Like can we. Find a way to streamline. 'cause I know most of the time when the teens give this to their parents, it's like, here, I need you to fill this out.
And then, you know, they're like gone forever. Gone to the ether. Yeah. It's like, uh, I'm signing everything. Oh, you weren't supposed to sign this. This is for this person to sign. And so by figuring, like partnering with hr, figuring that out, and then having these, like hiring packets going out to the teens mm-hmm.
Like what went from being like. A very long drawn out kind of like process of hiring someone and [00:27:00] being like, oh, the parent didn't sign this. Okay, now they're gonna come up. It became like super fast. Nice. And just like, okay, this is the,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: yeah.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Paperwork day. Okay, let's have you know. That helps everyone. Yes, let's have our HR people up here.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Mm-hmm.
Tina Wiley Crawford: And so at one point in my career, I got laid off. I was freelancing and I put out like. To the LinkedIn universe, just like, Hey, I've been looking for a while.
Mm-hmm. Here's my like wishlist. And then, yeah. My colleague, I still work with them now. Mm-hmm. Um, Katie, she like saw my post. It was just like, we're actually hiring for a recruitment manager. Would you be interested? There you go. And so universe, thank you. Yes. And so, because they knew I already had this experience, like working with paperwork.
Yeah. Recruiting and, um, outreach. You already improved a
Shawna Vesco Ahern: major process. Yeah.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Um, they were just like, oh, we gotta get you in. And so did all the interviews, got the position. Mm-hmm. Now it's about to be three years. Well, I'm
Shawna Vesco Ahern: glad you brought up LinkedIn 'cause I don't need to tell you, there's plenty of [00:28:00] bad vibes out there on LinkedIn right now with getting hired in the arts world.
And I'm not gonna ask you specific questions about it and you don't even have to answer this if you don't want to. But I was wondering if there was some part of the process that you wish that people understood whether it's like. Don't take it personally, everyone, because there's this, that, and the other thing going on.
Or just, um, when rejection letters say, oh, thank you for your interest, we went with another candidate. We encourage you to keep applying. Is that true? Do you encourage us all to keep applying? Is there anything you can share that you wish people knew to give 'em a little faith out there? Hmm.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Okay. To provide faith?
Well, one, please apply.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Okay. Like,
Tina Wiley Crawford: good. Shoot your shot. Mm-hmm. I would say in this, I mean,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: that's, that's it right there. Thank you for coming to my Ted talk. Shoot your shot. Keep applying, shoot
Tina Wiley Crawford: your shot, keep applying. But I mean, don't just, they call it like spray and pray like
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Right, right, right. You know, I'll
Tina Wiley Crawford: [00:29:00] see people that like submit, like I know people that really wanna work at the de young, but they'll just, like, they don't even have the skills to go with the job.
Mm-hmm. They're just like, I've done three years in at Whole Foods. Let me apply to do like digital content. It's like.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Uh, link it better, please. You
Tina Wiley Crawford: gotta
Shawna Vesco Ahern: some We need a bridge. Yeah. Like, okay. So did you take pictures of produce while you were there? Yeah. Something like,
Tina Wiley Crawford: yeah, like, okay, did you come up with some displays or something and take pictures?
Like, help me understand. Like, I don't wanna think that hard. There's a hundred applications. Do not make it hard for, hard for me to understand how this connects with your qualifications. Yeah. Um, so being specific helps, um, also, I mean. I would say some little thi like. The hiring manager makes the final decision.
Mm-hmm. Like that took time for me. I mean, I understood that in theory. Mm-hmm. I understand that in the process. But I would say in my first year and a half or so, like you see really great people that come in, people that you're [00:30:00] just like, oh my God, they fill this kind of gap. Or like, oh my God, we don't have this at our institution.
Mm-hmm. Oh my God, I really vibe with this person or whatever. And you get. Personally attach and you do your best to like, Hey, what about this person? Or hey, mm-hmm. What about that? And then you, you know, sometimes people also have folks that refer them, like other employees like, yeah, this was my former supervisor, they're great.
Mm-hmm. You know, they have such a great vision and blah, blah, blah. Um, and I will say that does get eyes on the application. It might get you a interview, you might go super far, but that doesn't always mean you're gonna get the job right. Um. But I mean, it's all about shooting your shot and making it very easy for the hiring manager, the recruiter, to really understand like, do you meet minimum qualifications?
I shouldn't have to work hard to see that you meet qualifications. Right. Um, and then if you exceed qualifications, like great. Mm-hmm. Even better. Um, so, but overall the process is really subjective. Mm-hmm. Like by the hiring [00:31:00] manager, some people are very like, oh, I need someone that worked in the arts. And other folks are like, oh, I just.
Want someone that's able to do the role and is art curious? Mm-hmm. So, you know, that's always a toss up there. 'cause you don't know. Do you have any
Shawna Vesco Ahern: insights for a ATS or like AI reading resumes or do you all still We don't that eyes
Tina Wiley Crawford: on? Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty much eyes on like, we use ADP workforce now.
Mm-hmm. And they, like when we like went to, we used to have Spire and we transitioned to that and they had like a AI thing like, oh, we'll tell you, you know, percentage of how close you are to this. It was very off. Mm-hmm. I've played
Shawna Vesco Ahern: with those on job scan and stuff, and I, if I contort my resume, I can make that percentage go higher.
But then if you're a human who reads it, you're like, what the, what is this? Yeah. So the machine's like, you're 93% and as a human, I look back and it's all cluttered and crazy looking and the grammar's all off. 'cause it has to match the job description, which might be in a different tense.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Mm-hmm. Um,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: so I've played that game before.
Yeah.
Tina Wiley Crawford: But some things, [00:32:00] like, some big takeaways I've had over the years, like I did a lot of work like hiring with, uh, publications and communications.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Mm-hmm.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Check. 500 times if you have a typo.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Oh, it's so embarrassing to catch one later. Like you go back to use a draft or something and like, yeah, you forget to change a name or a date or something.
Just dig a hole and put me in and put the dirt on me. I can't, I can't.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Yeah. It's, it's the cover, like mm-hmm. I feel like more than any other position, like, I mean, folks really look at that, but I mean, like for those positions, when they really start thinking about who's gonna get the job or like who, you know, we got 10 great.
People that applied. Mm-hmm. Who's the five we're gonna bring into the panel interview? They will start nitpicking for sure at that. And I mean, it makes sense. You know, you working in communication, you wanna make sure someone's clear. You're working in pub pubs, you wanna make sure the editor knows how to edit real.
Um, and also same for those roles. Like having a thank you letter or a thank you note is [00:33:00] so important. Like, Ooh,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: that's good to know. Yeah. I didn't know if they thought it was tacky now, or like a put on or like, you know. N
Tina Wiley Crawford: no. I mean, but if it's related to writing and communication like it is. Yeah. Like,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I mean the, I mean, do, 'cause my grandmother taught me manners.
Yes. But yes, yes, yes.
Tina Wiley Crawford: We had good grandmamas that taught us manners.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Um, the time has come to either ask the magic eight Ball a yes or no question, or if you have something else you wanna throw out a fun story. One of your favorite graphic design projects. Oh yeah. A plug for your creative freelance industry.
Anything you wanna do.
Tina Wiley Crawford: I'll do a plug and then I, I gotta think of a quick question. That's good. Um, so yeah, I am a freelance graphic designer. I went to City College while working full time. Mm-hmm. So I don't mention it often, but I am a very proud ram. I love City College. Um, I went to school for free. I learned from professionals, like people that actually did the job.
Yeah.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I taught there for a minute. And the faculty is world [00:34:00] class? Yes. Like, it's the best people. Yes. Yeah, for sure.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Um. Evening classes. Mm-hmm. Love community college. But um. Yeah, I mean, it was something that I started to do because I was like, oh, I don't really have a medium I work with and I'm want to, you know, I'm working with all these teaching artists and they're like, I do painting, I do illustration.
I'm like, well, I do graphic design. Um, and it's something I've always been kind of like, tell me you use
Shawna Vesco Ahern: that in your daily at your job. Like you'll make a little infographic better. Oh yeah, you'll make a little brochure. Got a mean e Jetta coming up. Oh yeah. You're, and you're doing like, and you don't have to, but I know you just do it.
Oh yeah. Yeah. It is
Tina Wiley Crawford: gotta look nice. Mm-hmm. I love a good table, a good grid. Like, so I made a table to organize, like a timeline for some, for one of the positions I'm working with now. Mm-hmm. And like I dabbled around with some code 'cause I was trying to like, I'm trying to like streamline, like putting something on the calendar.
Mm-hmm. Or putting something in the Google sheet and have it automatically go on the calendar. Oh, that would be nice. And so I reached out to it and [00:35:00] I'm like. Because I'm a good student too. I'm like, what are they gonna say? Like, and so like the person I'm working with at it, they were just like. Wow, this, this looks good.
And I'm like, oh, they're talking about the coat. Thank Yes. And then I was like, are you talking about the coat or the table? And he is like, the table. And I'm like, this is not like, I don't know you that well, but for you to be like, this table is nice. It is like me and a lot, he went home,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: he is at dinner, he is like, I saw a real nice table today at work.
And they're like, oh, how
Tina Wiley Crawford: did it look? Was it made out of wood or was it this? No. What?
Shawna Vesco Ahern: No. What colors did it have? It was a. Cell table, you can, it had little dropdowns and everything. There were equations in there. I don't know. Lots of functions.
Tina Wiley Crawford: So yeah, I use, I use my graphic design all the time. Helps streamline.
I saw a San
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Francisco Arts Commission thing you did in 2022, right? Yes. Yeah. Um, sorry, I deep dived you on the inner web.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Mm-hmm. Thanks. Thank you for doing your research. That's very good. Journalistic practice. [00:36:00] But um, yeah, so I used to actually work for the Arts Commission. As a, in their community investments, which is more like, um, grant making side.
Mm-hmm. But, um, I stayed in touch. We've been in touch and so I've done a few different projects with them, uh, making posters. So most recently I did the Art on Market. Mm-hmm. Um, series. So if you go on Market Street in San Francisco, like starting from like first Street to like, let's say where IKEA is off of like.
Powell or whatever. Um, if you look in the different, like S-F-M-T-A bus stops, there's really great art from, you know, all kind of folks from around the city. Mm-hmm. And I basically created the template around it to really celebrate their artwork, um, and to unify. Mm-hmm. Um, it looked really neat. Thanks.
Yeah. And then I also did some posters for, um. Oh, the Southeast Cultural Community Center. Mm-hmm. Uh, which opened up, I wanna say about two years ago. And so, yeah, I mean that was the [00:37:00] first time seeing a poster of mine, like up and out there. Like in college I was a. Neighborhood assistance. So if you went to uc, Santa Cruz, you know, Oaks.
Oaks, Oaks, um, I was an NA for two years and like I was known for making the best posters. So like people would steal them. Yeah. Like I would make them and then it'd be like, where is it? Or I would go to a friend's house and then it'd be like, y'all took it. And they were like, yeah, it was cool. It was a boombox.
And I'm like. Girl, I needed that out. 'cause that event is next week.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: That's great because as much fun as it is to make really nice looking tables, this is another outlet for your creativity. Yeah. Which brings you even more joy than a nice table.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Yes. Um, and so I'm open to some freelance projects. I, you know,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: great.
And we will tag you as well. Thank you. Um, here's the magic eight ball. Be careful with her. 'cause she's always right. Yes or no question. And I'm like, I'm like
Tina Wiley Crawford: afraid of the [00:38:00] universe. Well, the universe, the divine will do what? It's, it's been showing up. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: It could be simple, it could be silly. It could be profound.
Tina Wiley Crawford: Uh, man, I guess, 'cause I'm thinking about freelance project, like will I have a freelance project, a dope, fun freelance project? By the end of the year, will I have a dope, fun freelance project by the end of the year? Oh, oh.
Not you thinking about it. It don't even say anything.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Like, look at it. Oh. Oh. See, look. You gotta tap it. Give it a little tappy tap. What?
Tina Wiley Crawford: Oh, you really thinking about it? Okay. Can I put. Oh, definitely. Yes. Oh,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I was just messing with you. I know. I was like, damn. She's got a funny sense of humor. Yeah. Does she have a name?
She's just Magic eight Ball. Okay. Yeah. Well, hey, that's great. You're gonna have a dope, fun freelance project by the end of the [00:39:00] year. Cool. Thank you so much for coming on Art. Yeah, this was super fun. Thanks Shawna. This, this was fun. Yeah.
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