Art Yap

Jackie von Treskow
Shawna Vesco Ahern: [00:00:00] This is an art. Yap. It is an art. Yap. We're talking art. Yap. Ity y art.
Theme Song: Artfully, artfully, artfully, artfully. Yap. Yap. Yap. It's time.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: From Rogue signals to city monuments, the message never stopped. I'm Shawna Vesco Ahern, and this is Art Yap. The podcast where I gab with Bay Area creatives about imagination, arts, culture, and everything in between. Today's guest is Jackie Von Treskow, senior program Manager for public art at the San Francisco Arts Commission.
Jackie's journey into the [00:01:00] arts wasn't a straight line. It involved mythical Asheville Forests, fringe Pirate Radio. Writing hard for SF from LA. In a master's program and nonprofit hustle, we talk about what it really means to make art public, how monuments shape our collective memory, and why humor and empathy matter as much as policy and process.
If you've ever wondered who decides what art gets built in your city or how those decisions get made, this one pulls back the curtain with warmth, humor, and a dose of radical honesty. Let's get into it.
Welcome to Art Yap. Thank you. Really good to be here. Yeah. I think you know SF Arts Commission. Obviously iconic. You can't walk two feet in San Francisco really without seeing That's true. At least one, if not more things done by the SF Arts Commission.
That's true, but I think most of us don't really understand how it works beyond seeing the calls [00:02:00] on Instagram. Mm-hmm. And so I thought it'd be really fun to pull you in. And kind of like demystify it a little, love it and show people behind the scenes and the people that make it happen with creative project management and all kinds of different kind of creativity that we wouldn't necessarily think of beyond like an artist just making the artwork.
Yeah. Um, so why don't you tell our fair listeners a little bit about you and your job. Yeah. Because you're senior programs manager. Yeah. Well, first of all, I appreciate the opportunity to pull the curtain back mm-hmm. On our work. I do think. Um, I appreciate you describing the San Francisco Arts Commission as sort of iconic, um, never heard you described that way, but I love that because we do so much work that I think, um, you know, I'm aware that a lot of people aren't aware of, and we're not just one program.
We're not just public art. We have community investments. We have an amazing galleries program. We have, we support our cultural centers in San Francisco. So just wanna, just wanna note the expansive nature of the work that we do. But, um, yeah, my title is Senior Program Manager for Public Art. [00:03:00] Um, and that involves both project management mm-hmm.
Of individual public art projects, but also like supporting our staff and supporting the development of our policies and processes. Sort of larger picture, um, uh, work around the, the program and what we're endeavoring to do. Oh. And they have you touching millions of dollars. We are touching millions of dollars thanks to the voters of San Francisco.
Mm-hmm. Who passed the art enrichment ordinance, um, by vote in 1969. Um, we are very fortunate in San Francisco to have sort of a 2% for our program. Mm-hmm. So when you see a city building being built, um, whether it's, you know, a fire department hospital mm-hmm. Health clinic transportation project, 2% of the construction cost goes towards the integration of public art.
Shout out to Jill Manin. Shout out to Jill Manin for sure. Yeah. Jill is a, Jill is a true legend. Yeah. We went to coffee and I emailed her trying to get her on this. But she ghosted me, so I don't think she wants to come talk about it. But we'll see if we can. We can pressure her if you can. She's got stories.
Let's do it. Let's pressure her into it. Yes, I [00:04:00] will. I will help you do that. 'cause she has stories and they should be memorialized for sure. Yeah, I will. I want to get them recorded. 'cause that's kind of like the institutional memory of the nineties into noun and. Been such an interesting arc, and I think mm-hmm.
It deserves its own little archive, even if it's just a goofy podcast. Totally. I agree. It's like, it's really important to the history of arts and culture in San Francisco. Mm-hmm. And she's a pivotal figure, so let's get her in here on the mic. Yeah. Get that documentation locked. But back to you. I'm wondering, like, I have so many things to ask, um, it's sort of like a mix of how did you end up in the arts in this role That's not.
You know, at face value creative, but you're obviously like a creative person in some capacity or you're attracted to creativity. Oh yeah. So I don't know if you want to talk about your journey of how you came into this role and how you kind of view yourself as a creative or not. When people like ask like, oh, what do you do for work?
Oh yeah, that's, that's a really good, good question. And it's, this is where I'm probably gonna ramble. So Good. Do it. I got my coffee, I was like, here she goes. Set her up. Um, so I [00:05:00] think we were, when we were initially talking, I mentioned that like my, my path here has been what I would. Considered kind of unconventional.
Mm-hmm. I didn't like know from a very early age that like, oh, I wanna work in the arts and this is what I want to do. I didn't even actually know this kind of work existed. Yeah. This, and I didn't even know what the field of public art was. I didn't know that it, it was a kind of a concrete thing that one could actually work in.
You asked my toddler, Francis, like, what do you want to be when you grow up? She's not like. A senior programs manager for SF Arts Commission. No, but maybe she will be after this. I'm actually kind of hoping that this is what this does. I hope so too. And I, you know, I will say, and I just wanted, you know, we, there are a lot of strong, incredible women in this field.
Mm-hmm. And they are, I think, a large part of the reason why I'm where I'm at. Like the relationships that I've been able to make over the years I've been doing this work and have gotten to this place. Are really because of like really incredible women doing this work and like blazing the trail ahead of me and, and sort of laying the groundwork.
Um, and I think a lot of that labor [00:06:00] goes unrecognized mm-hmm. And unappreciated. Um, but for those of us who are in it and who have really leveraged and benefited from those relationships, um, yeah, I'm here to celebrate and like lift up and highlight like. There's like, I come after a long legacy of really incredible, strong, smart women doing this work, and I'm just one in the line, right?
So I hope to support other women in the field to do this work as well. Um, so just wanted to plug that, just a little, little fem corner. A little F corner. That's fine. Um, um. Yeah, so I grew up in Asheville, North Carolina. Um, and I had like, kind of like a very kind of idyllic childhood. I grew up in the country really, and my parents are both, um, immigrants.
Mm-hmm. They're my, my dad's German, my mom's Irish. So I kind of had this like hybrid experience of like growing up with like their particular cultural values and like traditions in the home, but also being immersed in like this. Strange Southern American thing going on. But Asheville is its own like kind of progressive liberal [00:07:00] enclave in the Blue Ridge Mountains.
There's a reason why the Black Mountain College started right there because it just really, it it's an environment that fosters like innovation and creativity and like, um, sort of this avantgarde approach to like creating work, whether it's folk arts or. You know, visual arts I think is just, it's just an environment that's somehow conducive to, I kind of knew that a little bit because randomly, like during the pandemic, I was looking at Raleigh.
I was like, do I wanna move there? And then I was like, oh, it's kind of like artsy around here. They kind of valued like education. Mm-hmm. And childhood arts access. I was like, oh, this is interesting. I had no idea. Yeah. No, it's true. So Asheville, I mean, I think I, I took it for granted then. Not now. Um, what a great environment that was.
Just like, I was like so imaginative as a kid. I was like always outside. I was like writing, writing stories, reading stories, creating stories. Just like I lived in like so many imaginative universes. Mm-hmm. And like you just free reign and I. And I do credit it to just like being able to grow up in a place like that.
Um, [00:08:00] uh, but uh, it's kinda like mythic out there, you know? It is like all the songs are like the aesthetic or when you think of it, there's like a lot of like mythos underpinning it when I think of it. And that's just from a West coast perspective. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. And I think you feel that there, it's.
Beautiful, special, magical place. Um, and then you went to school for counting? No, no close. Oh really? I was joking. No. So, you know, I, so from Asheville I moved, I lived in Germany for several years and then I moved Ooh, where in Germany? Um, I lived in, um, Hamburg, in Frankfurt. Ooh, nice. Yeah. Um, which was great 'cause I got to sort of, um, you know, be closer to my, my father's side of the family.
Mm-hmm. I tried to make happen, learn language, and I tried to make Berlin happen, but the paperwork was. To Alf Deutsch. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Berlin, it's like so many people, everybody speaks English like Yeah. And Spanish, so, yeah. Um, you know, and so then I made a be, I've been in the Bay area since I was 16 North Bay, and then I went to uc, Davis for undergrad and had zero clue.
Like, I was like, oh, I think I wanna be a veterinarian. I love animals. Yeah, I was gonna say Davis, that's kind of what it is. It's [00:09:00] agricultural. Yeah, it's animals. My husband went there, um, kind of in that vein, but not like art, how I got weed out so quick. Okay. Shauna. I was like first semester of like organic che of organic chemistry.
And like some, an internship at a, at a o chem is the worst. Yeah. I was like, I took it for art preservation. I was like, uhoh, no. Yeah. I was gonna, I was gonna go that route too. And it was like, I can't do the, the, the O chem. I can't do it. No. Yeah. It's just, it's not me. Yeah. It's not how my brain ticks. No. Um, that's so funny.
Are we the same person? No, no, no. I did a, I did a degree in international relations and communications. 'cause I was like, oh, I can like make this work in different fields. And I was like, I just, I didn't know, I never had a vision of like. Where I could see myself professionally. Right? I was just like, I'm just gonna kind of fall into a job that is fine and will support me and, and support a life that I wanna live.
And that's reasonable. You know, I'm like's millennial, it's too much to ask for a job that I'm gonna like, this is gonna fulfill me on a deep level. Just kind, it's always like get, you know, it's stable and pay well, and I have health [00:10:00] benefits. I'm on the edge of my seat. So what happened? How did you get sucked into this vortex?
So, so I will say a pivotal moment when I went to uc Davis was I found, um, KDBS, which is the. Community, um, freeform radio station there. Oh, wow. And, um, I was always into music. Mm-hmm. And like a voracious consumer of, of music in all forms. And I found the, this radio station and I found community there. And I found a, a, a group of like.
Sort of like all folks who are sort of operating on like the margins of like normalcy for sure. And just like looking for like modes of creative expression, music, musical expression. That was like not what you're hearing on mainstream radio. Mm-hmm. And I was like, wow, these are my, these are my people.
Like I found, I'm like, I'm on the couch there every day at lunch break. Yeah. And I had, I co-hosted a radio show. Um, I was really into the, um, electronic dance music scene at the time. That's fun. I found like rave culture. Um, but I was like hanging out with punks and hippies and you know, [00:11:00] just all the folks who were sort of brought together around our music.
This is blowing my mind how many people affiliated with Art Yap and with me have radio in their background as like their alternative, really genre that brought them into this. And like, shout out to KLW, shout out to B-F-F-F-M. This is like, yeah, there's a red thread here. Love. We could explore this. We didn't did that.
Yeah, I think I was like, thinking about this. Um, coming into our conversation. 'cause I was like, well, yeah, it kind of makes sense, especially the, the, the like parlaying into public art because it's all about sort of this like democratic means of Yes. Of distribution and access to mm-hmm. Art, you know, and music as art and, and different types of art and like.
Anybody with a radio or receiver can tune in and anybody, you know, anyone can broadcast really. Mm-hmm. You know, you can, you can, you can purchase a low transmission a, a low frequency transmitter. Yeah. Can go and to your neighbors, you know, pirate radio. Yes. Love it. Like, um, so, so that I think [00:12:00] planted the seed and that really entrenched me in sort of music and the music scene.
I ended up interning and then working at a record label and running a record label for many years. Um, here in, in, in San Francisco. Um, and so that was good for the time. Right, right. I was like, I was, this was like, okay, I guess music industry is where I'm going. I'm doing it. And then, you know, I graduated in two, in, I think it was 2000, 2001 in a terrible job market.
Mm-hmm. Then there was like no work. And I interviewed for one radio job and it was horrible. I was like, this is commercial. I'm like, no way. This is not for me Uhoh. So I, it's like clear channel or something. It was like, oh, it was, um, I just remember they, you don't have a show on Tuesday called Tata Tuesday.
So. It was the bone. It was the bone.
Oh 1 0 7 7, the bone. And here's Jackie with Tata Tuesday. Yeah. And I was like, that's not the femme corner we need. No, but it's the femme corner. They want,
Jackie von Treskow: I was like, horrified. I, they're like, we want a publicity person. And they're like, actually we want you to do this. And I'm like, [00:13:00] oh, no, no, no, no, no.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: And I'm not wearing a t-shirt that says Tata Tuesday. No. And I'm so, I'm not like, I'm not your girl. No. It's like, I'm not your girl. Taco Tuesday fine. Yeah, exactly. ta ta Tuesday. get out., I thought the Tuesday I'm setting a for here. Okay. This could have been such an alternate reality for you to be existing in right now.
Jackie von Treskow: Oh my goodness. Thank, yeah. No, I was, luckily I had the wherewithal to kind of like, I was like, Nope. Gone. No. So I just, what I did then is I continued to run the, the label. Um, and then I, I was waiting tables as we do. Mm-hmm. I met so many artists and creative folks that I still know today. Oh yeah. Um, waiting tables.
Um, and I will also say, um, working in the service industry, I think has really set me up to do this work.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I almost just said that I was like running in front of house, running back of house. You know, prioritizing based on urgency. Yes. Customer service, keeping a straight face service. Yes. Yes.
Jackie von Treskow: I, I feel like you have a background in
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Starbucks.
Yes. Let's just say Starbucks. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's real and like in bartending. Yeah. Mm-hmm. [00:14:00] Yeah.
Jackie von Treskow: I mean, I think if you don't have some kind of level of experience in service industry, like I kind of, often time I'm a little bit questioning like, what's your empathy for like the human conditions?
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Me as well.
You know, like it's foundational. Yeah. It's a core thing and I'm definitely gonna make my kids. S get those as their jobs. Yeah. Yeah.
Jackie von Treskow: A hundred percent. Mm-hmm. Um, formative years. So, you know, doing the thing that we do in San Francisco, Peter Pan Times. We're writing tables. Mm-hmm. Running a label, doing being, being out in the world, running shows our shows, hair's greasy, our outfit's cool, going to shows, galleries, hanging out, you know, whatever.
Um, but then I was like, okay, well I need to like, this can't, this is not sustainable. Right. Um, and so that's that German side of you that was like, we need to be a little bit reasonable here. We need to get things tightened up here. And so I did some research and I was just sort of like, I, I took art history in uc, Davis.
I didn't obviously do that as a major 'cause I was like. There's no job for me. Yeah. You know, I don't, I'm not gonna be a teacher. Mm-hmm. And I was like, but I really enjoyed it. Like I really enjoyed, um, there's [00:15:00] almost like how art can be sort of like a, a social or cultural like anthropological lens onto a time into a place and.
I just like, loved how that, how, you know, I don't know that, that connection. And so I was like, well, okay, let's see what I can do here. And I, and I kind of did some research and I was, and I was thinking back to when I had lived in London. I went to see Olafur Eliasson's Weather Project at, um, the Tate Modern Turbine Hall.
And that blew me away. 'cause it was experiential. It was like. It was free and accessible. People were hanging out in this space with this work in a way that I hadn't seen before. Mm-hmm. And I like left such a huge impression on me. And I was like, I wanna do that kind of thing. How do I do that? And so that's how I kind of found my way.
Wow. To public art. And I found this program at the University of Southern California that was like a master's in public art studies. Yeah. I saw the title of your thesis when I was. Fact checking your background? No. Wow. But it was like really specific to San Francisco. Yes. Which you don't see a lot of like masters and PhD thesis are like out there like theoretical [00:16:00] la la land.
Mm-hmm. All the way out there. And yours was like, yeah. Mission. Yeah. Mission high school. I wrote hard for San Francisco and LA Yeah. I luck. I wrote hard, like, I'm like I love the city so much. I love San Francisco. And I think, um. It's like shaped me in such a way. I think I was always anti Los Angeles because of like, you know, bride or die have to say.
So I came in and I was in a cohort of eight with eight folks, um, who had all been sort of doing it. They've been doing the thing. They had like had their own gallery space. Good for them. Nonprofits. Wow. They've been doing curatorial work and I'm like, Hey guys. I like, I like music. They're like, yeah, and I'm from San Francisco.
They're like, oh, it's so provincial, you know? And I was like, well, I'm gonna show you otherwise. So I wrote hard for San Francisco and all, like, all the conversations. And I think, and, and in obviously in my thesis, I found again great mentors that supported me, um, had a mentor. Um, she, uh, Karen hea, curator [00:17:00] and writer.
Who like saw what I was doing and what I was about and was like a hundred percent all in. Um, and just really supported my point of view and perspective. And that makes all the difference to just feel like there's this outside person validating. Validating you. Yes. Yeah. Especially when you're kind of coming in with a mixed background, kind of this and that, and then you're like, this is my vision.
Yeah. Doesn't make sense in the larger context. Yeah. Of like. Thinking about art and doing our practice. Totally. Yeah. And I don't feel like I had as much at stake as these, first of all, I came in at 30. Yeah. I'm old. I'm like old, way older. Mm-hmm. Like I'm saying, way older, like seven to 10. You know, I felt way older, not seven to 10.
I'm a different generation, you know? Very much so. And I also didn't feel, I hadn't like built something that I was risking losing or like wasn't gonna go where I wanted to go. I was like, I was kind of open. Yeah. I was like, let's, for me it was like. The, the price tag of that program, which was a lot. Yeah.
But luckily has been forgiven. Mm-hmm. Thank you to Biden, um, you know, uh, public student loan forgiveness program, [00:18:00] um, making that happen before he left office. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I was like just really making the relationships I needed to make in order to get where I need, wanted to go. So like, having great, um, teachers, professors, working alongside artists in the MFA program.
Mm-hmm. Um, and also the folks in my class. Um, and then getting to know folks throughout the LA art scene and different gallery and nonprofit spaces. And let's say it again for the people in the back, because I think this was a huge thing lacking in my PhD program at uc, Santa Cruz. Was this on the ground?
We are here to create social networks that will act as actual nets for you in these job markets. Yeah, and I don't think that's built in enough in curriculum or in the day to day. So let's say it again here, when you're in these programs. It's not just nose down, read the books, do the writing. You have to be out there meeting people, being active, collaborating.
Yeah. Co-authoring, forming relationships. Yeah. That's what the point of these programs are. 'cause a lot of people are always like, oh, like what's that PhD even good for? And it's like literally nothing. [00:19:00] But the experience of it is everything. Yeah. That's where you make the value Totally is. In the doing of it.
That's a hundred percent right. And my writing my, like my focus, my thesis, it was an opportunity for me to further do that. I was interviewing folks who had been. Uh, you know, either were like arts workers or curators or had spaces in San Francisco. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, during that like late nineties.com, um, boom and bus.
Yeah. Simultaneous bus. Yeah, exactly. Um, and artists who were, and who were continuing to live and work here and had seen these changes happen, um, and those connections like really serve, you know, serve me well and also gave me I think a very, um. A, a useful and nuanced context to come back into and do this work again.
Mm-hmm. You know? Um, so I just kind of feel like, you know, you said tight, the red thread, like there's so many of those. I'm like swimming in 'em. That's great. That's a tight narrative when you have so many. And then when you came back to sf, you landed at Foresight or like Yeah, so I graduated, I went, I graduated from grad [00:20:00] school and then I was, um, running, I tried to get Frank on the show too.
We got a lot of people to Pressure. Yeah. Frank's great. Um, I, um, I was managing an artist studio in la not for like a long term just to find, have a job, while I was like figuring out the longer term thing. Mm-hmm. And then this job was posted. I had no intention necessarily moving back here. It would've been great to do it, but it wasn't.
I was like open to going wherever the work took me. Um, and I at the same time had interviewed for Fellowship at The Walker. Oh, the Walker, yeah. Which I love. Shout out to the Walker. I think one of the, one of the best art institutions in the us. They've had some trips and falls over time, but I think like they really have a great program there.
Um, I just flew in from Minneapolis on Monday. Yeah. And I couldn't believe that their Institute of Contemporary Art is totally free. I was, I walked in, I was like ready to pay. My friend was like, Nope. And I was like, what are you talking about? Nope. Yeah. And it was such a crazy mix of like contemporary art, community art, and the relics of the past.[00:21:00]
And it was all free. Yeah. As it should be. Yeah. As it should be. And they had the corn sweats bad out there, so it was free AC too, so that was great. Yeah. Um, the summer out there has been brutal from what I hear. Oh, it was not amazing. Yeah. Lake life really great for your chewy complexion and, um, if you have curly hair, it was a hundred and w out and 84 humidity.
Yeah. Yeah. So I went and looked at art all day. Um. So I had, yeah. So anyway, so I had, I had um, been like, you know, um, connected with this fellowship opportunity. It was for like a pub public, like a Getty publication fellowship at the Walker. Okay. And I was like, this sounds really cool. Yeah. And I had been interviewing for that, but then I came across this foresight job.
Mm-hmm. And I interviewed for that. And then I got a second interview. And I came up to meet Cheryl Haynes. Yeah. Um, who's amazing. Um, and we immediately clicked, like we just saw each other and I think she knew what I could bring and I was like, well, I have so much to learn from you. And like she was telling me about the projects they were getting [00:22:00] ready to work on.
And wasn't it kind of new at that point, like new-ish? It was, I think it was new-ish. I mean, I think they had had like, um. They'd had a residency program. They had been working, they had been working on, and then they had one, a project at Fort Point called International Orange. Yeah. And another project in the Presidio, um, called Presidio Habitat.
So they'd had two projects sort of in the national Park spaces here, but they were definitely at a point where they were trying to grow and expand and, um, another art, yeah. Crossover. Brian, Keith Thomas was just on. He has a show up right now. Yes. With Forsyth. Yes, I saw that. Yeah. This is so funny. Yeah. Um, again, one degree of separation between us.
It is a small world here. It's very small. Yeah. Um, and so Cheryl, she's like, yeah, you know, we got this project coming up with Andy Goldsworthy and then like, I'm working on this project, um, you know, with Ai Wei Wei and on Alcatraz. Like I remember that whole thing. Oh. I was like, okay, well yeah, I'm really interested, you know,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I have to show you a spam email.
I woke up to this morning pretending to be from Ai Wei Wei. That's so funny. I know. Is it or is [00:23:00] it? No, it's spam, it's for sure. Spam? Yeah.
Jackie von Treskow: I think he saw his computer. Um. Yeah. So she offered me the job and I was like, okay, we're doing this. Yeah. And at the time it was like starting off part-time. Mm-hmm. That quickly changed obviously, but I, we, you know, my husband and I, we moved up, we were not husband and wife at the time, but we moved up back up here.
Um, we're happy to be back in the Bay and like my first project with Foresight and Cheryl was. Working with Andy Goldsworthy to do tree fall. That's so crazy. And I was like, is this my line? I was like, I remember driving across the bridge 'cause I had Buch Rivers and tides. Mm-hmm. And I was just like, oh my gosh, this is so amazing.
Um, and I was driving across the bridge the first day of meeting, meeting him on site. And I was like, this is my life. Like what is going on? Like, how did this happen? And I just like, it was amazing. Talk about incredible artists. Mm-hmm. To not and human to work with. Like he's And what was your role? Real deal?
Shawna Vesco Ahern: What role? You were wearing a lot of hats probably.
Jackie von Treskow: Yes. 'cause it was a non-profit. Exactly. Small, small, scrappy nonprofit. So how are [00:24:00] you helping with the show? I, everything you could imagine. Yeah, that's what I was just gonna say, like, um, outside install comms. Yes. So, I mean, I think primarily, you know, I, I helped manage.
The, the, the, the organization, the nonprofit. Mm-hmm. So like staff and pay, like hr, payroll Oh my gosh. Or all that. But like, we had a separate, um, development. Mm-hmm. Director, manager. Um, so it was just the two of us really. Oh, wow. Um, that were core staff and then we bring in consultants on a project by project basis.
But yeah, I mean, I'm like. One minute out, like mixing clay mm-hmm. With Andy and his crew, and then, you know, next, like, we're organizing a board meeting or you know mm-hmm. Whatever it's, you know, meeting with our park partners. And I loved being out in the field and I loved meeting the people that, um, all had to come together to make these projects happen.
Yeah. And that was like, yes. You know? And then also just getting my hands in really genuinely dirty and working so closely with an artist to see them. Do the work and to support them doing the work. It was so gratifying and amazing.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: And, um, you get [00:25:00] those little serotonin boosts too, I can tell. Like when it's a small team and a low budge and you start pulling it off, move by move as everything falls into place, you get that little, like, we're doing it, it's the best kind of fatigue we're doing it.
Yeah.
Jackie von Treskow: You're like, maybe this isn't good for long run. Yeah. You know, like working at this intensity, uh, with like zero boundaries. Um, we all did it. We all, yeah, we all did it.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: We all have that nonprofit in our background. Yeah, totally. And you believe in the mission and you leave each thing with artists feeling so gratified and you're like, this is good work.
I'm doing good in the world. I don't care what the cost is.
Jackie von Treskow: A hundred percent personally. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. So, you know, those, you know, so worked with what did that project, and then of course, Iowa and Alcatraz, which was so hugely influential. Just outside. Yeah. Personally.
Yeah.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Let's, let's turn it back into a prison. Exactly.
Oh, man.
Jackie von Treskow: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, having worked out there for over such a sustained period of time Yeah. And understanding the complexities [00:26:00] of that site and also what a resource it is and what an opportunity for storytelling. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, and empowering community a hundred.
Yeah. I, I feel, yeah. You know, um. I don't know. I think there's gonna be a, there's a lot of advocacy to, to protect it as the, for sure. The resource that it is. Yeah. Um, and all that it represents and can be, you know. Mm-hmm. Um,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: but then you got tired of doing all that and you came to SFAC.
Jackie von Treskow: Well, yes. You know, it kind of, you know, the scrappy, that hustle, that pace.
Mm-hmm. You know, there's like an intimacy of working in such a tight group. Obviously I'm working with Cheryl Haynes, who's like a visionary. Um, and, you know, there's only, you know, she's like sort of the creative mind, but you're doing a lot of work to support that and also bringing your own creative ideas and input mm-hmm.
Into, into the conversation. You're, and you're growing in your own way and there comes a point where it's like, okay, I can't exceed where I'm at now. Right. Given the structure of this organization For sure. And how it's set up. Yeah. [00:27:00] And it was just time. Mm-hmm. It was time we had wrapped up sanctuary.
Mm-hmm. Um, that was a project I was really proud of. It felt like it felt like a good time to kind of button it up mm-hmm. And sort of move on to the next thing. And I was like, you know, okay. Arts Commission, like, they're, they're doing something at a different level, working in through different processes, policies, partnerships are still super important.
Relationships still super important. But like the notion of integrating work and sort of like permanent projects was like, I was gonna say exciting.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Like your, your impact is extended exponentially coming into something like San Francisco Arts Commission, the work you do on a daily basis, like it starts to reach further and touch more people and stay around a little longer as well.
Yeah, yeah.
Jackie von Treskow: Yeah. That slippery, yeah, that slippery notion of permanence. Yeah. What does that mean really? No, I, I, yeah, I fully agree and I feel like I, I, everything in my background had prepared me to come in here. Mm-hmm. You know, to art the Arts Commission in a way to bring maybe [00:28:00] fresh perspective and to, to offer, you know, to, you know, to question, like, to see where we can, you know, um.
In city government, it's really easy just to like kind of fall into the flow of like, this is how things are done
Shawna Vesco Ahern: For sure. And you know, not, that was me at the county a little bit fighting that battle.
Jackie von Treskow: Yeah. Not to say there wasn't a lot of work to constantly improve the way you're doing things right.
Where you can. Mm-hmm. There's certain things you can control, there's certain things you can't. City hall controls things that we can't always impact and, but there are a lot of things we can control in how we're doing things. And how we're working with folks. And that's what I was gonna ask, like you probably stepped into that role not knowing much more than a lot of us about how things like the government work Oh, I didn't know anything.
I,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: so like what's something now that you, that you know, that people don't understand or don't see fully or something that might be of interest? The people listening. Yeah. About how things like this work.
Jackie von Treskow: Well, I think, I think what happens, so I came in as a project manager. Mm-hmm. I felt like I was drinking water outta a fire [00:29:00] hose.
I had. Like insane imposter syndrome. I was like, what am I doing? Mm-hmm. These people are speaking a whole different language because it is, it's like a different language. Everyone speaks in acronyms every single, right? Oh, for sure. You know, I had never, I, you know, we're, we're interfacing with like architects, designers, structural engineer, all these folks on a level that's like.
You're speaking, you have to learn. You have to learn the language. Mm-hmm. And so you're, there's a lot of like learning on the job when you first start out? Yeah. To just like, where, where, how does this work? What do you, where do I go for this? What does that mean? What's the acronym? Well, trying to not look stupid.
Trying to not totally in control of, I just wanna make art. You know, there's all this that has to happen. Um, so I think there's. There's a lot of intentionality between how these processes were created. Mm-hmm. And the guide, the guidelines and the policies. That doesn't mean they can't be improved. Right.
And that they, they shouldn't be revisited frequently as times change. Mm-hmm. And technology changes and everything changes. Everything changes. So like, you can look at just like the [00:30:00] history of the past few years, you know. The, the murder of George Floyd. Mm-hmm. And then everybody kind of leaning in even further into their racial equity work and social justice work and racial justice work.
Mm-hmm. And then revisiting, okay, how are we doing things in a way where we can, like further lower barriers. Mm-hmm. And are we really being equitable in these processes? And like, really taking the time to step back and, and critique ourselves. Mm-hmm. And the work that, and how we're doing our work. And like, you know, and that's a, that's an iterative, ongoing process for sure.
It's like progress, not perfection is. Sort of the like, as long as we're always doing better. Mm-hmm. You know, that's, that's to me what the goal is. Mm-hmm. Um, so there's that. Um, and then obviously with COVID mm-hmm. You know, the, the wheels kept turning, construction was considered an essential Yeah. Job service.
So like, we were working on these capital projects in, in, in, you know, in parallel with these projects. So construction's still happening. Mm-hmm. So we still had to do our work. We still had to figure out how to. [00:31:00] How to transition into working virtually in certain ways. Mm-hmm. Um, uh, we were also, city workers were deployed as disaster service workers.
Wow. Yeah. So we were all deployed across the city in different capacities. Mm-hmm. You know, I was like stationed at different food pantries. Mm-hmm. You know, but my, some of my colleagues were at the disaster. Um, service center, so I didn't know that. That's interesting. Yeah, it is. As a city employee, that is, that's your disaster service worker.
So you're the first to be called on a disaster. Speaking of disaster, I know we got some sirens going on outside, so when there's a big one, we'll be out there wearing our hard hats and trying to figure out how to provide support to our communities. Um. So, I don't know. Back to your question, it's like, what, what, what, what should people, I mean, it's, I mean, all of this, everything you just said is like stuff people don't know about how this works.
Yeah. I think people, there's a miscon like, oh, everything takes so long. Yeah. And I'm like, yeah, you're not wrong. Like, yeah,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: there's red tape on everything. There's red tape on everything.
Jackie von Treskow: Some of that is legitimate, like bureaucratic red tape. But some of it is just like the intentionality again of our processes.
Like to select an [00:32:00] artist for a project, it takes us six to eight months to do that. For sure. It's not because we're moving slow. Mm-hmm. It's because. We are assembling an an artist review panel with all the project partners mm-hmm. And stakeholders. We are doing engagement with community and getting feedback.
You know, we're working really closely with artists to support the development of their proposals. Um, and we work with a lot of artists who are doing this for the first time and need that support and that ongoing, you know, guidance and, and we are a resource to them. Um, and yeah, it's, it's, it's, it. This doesn't happen overnight if it's, you're gonna be intentional about this work, right?
And if you wanna be transparent about the work too.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: And so let me take this meta as well, because again, like I told you, the whole premise for this show kind of came out of with the federal funding cuts and listening to a lot of conversations about public art and about the necessity or the use value of public art.
Let me ask you. Um, what is it good for? Why are we spending all this money? Why do we have all of these people in these processes who cares about ornamental things that aren't [00:33:00] essential? Hmm. Like public art. Lay it on me.
Jackie von Treskow: This is a big philosophical question. Lay it on me. What is a world without art? I mean, I mean, like, I mean public.
We can define, I, I define art expansively. I also define public expansively. Mm-hmm. It's public, you know, I think it's, it's what is the value in, in folks seeing themselves, their stories. Um, their communities represented, um, visually through, through the, through the eyes of an artist. You know, like, you know, you look at the monuments and memorials throughout the city and, um, you know, they, there's a history of representing individuals that have, that have inflicted harm mm-hmm.
On communities. Um, and, um, we're at a point of reckoning, I think, in terms of like. What these objects in our public and civic spaces represent in terms of what our values are, right. And what we hold dear and what's important to us. Mm-hmm. And is it, is it about victory and, and, and oppression? Like, you know, like, um, you [00:34:00] know, is that what it's about?
Or is it about, um, valuing our communities, our neighbors, our stories, our histories, um, you know, and, and the truths that we hold. Yeah. Dear. So I think like, um. Yeah, I, and I, and I think what you, you, what you, what you might notice is like in moments of like social turmoil mm-hmm. Where do people express their, their grief?
Mm-hmm. Their anxiety, their fear. It's usually on, it's in public spaces, on, on these objects. Like, there's a reason why, um, uh, during the, the, the racial reckoning and uprising after George Floyd's murder that like folks were taking to the streets and pulling down. Statues of Christopher Columbus. Right.
Like that's, there's a reason for that. Yeah. And so like, if we can then sort of invert this mm-hmm. And say, well, like, okay, well what are the, what are these, what are these objects, these artworks, these memorials, these monuments that, that are true reflections of who we are. Mm-hmm. [00:35:00] Um, and aren't inflicting harm on people or violence on people by existing.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: And I always think too, like it's a way of. Visualizing and actually manifesting and creating a shared present in this space where then we can imagine a shared communal future as well. Percent. Yeah. And like without that, we lose that kind of continuum into this unknown, and then people are sort of fragmented.
And then, so when we say building community share, that's a buzz catchphrase, but I do think of it on like this actual level that involves theory and praxis. Mm-hmm. And that's the work that you do, the way I see it as in mixing these praxis and theory maneuvers.
Jackie von Treskow: Yeah. I mean, we're all, I mean, I, I think we talked a little bit about this when we, when we were on the phone, but like, you know, I, I, you know, I, I really value this sort of notion of like whole person.
Mm-hmm. Well, leadership or whatever, where it's like, you know, we're all whole people with full lives. Full and, and, and multi-facets and, and, um. I'm really aware of that in like the people that I'm [00:36:00] working with. Mm-hmm. Whether it's just, whether it's like, you know, an architect, an artist, a structural engineer, community member.
Mm-hmm. Like all that we're bringing into the, this space together. Mm-hmm. Um, and being sensitive to that. I'm also really, I think. To be successful in this work? I think you have to be reflexive about what you're bringing in. Yeah. Um, you know, your, your biases, your privilege. Mm-hmm. You know, I mean, I am very conscious of like going, doing work in communities as.
A white person. Mm-hmm. A white woman and also representative of city government and like, what that carries with me for sure, people don't know who I am. Mm-hmm. But those things, those things come before me. Mm-hmm. That's the first people people see and know. Mm-hmm. And so there's work to be done about establishing like a genuine and authentic human connection with folks mm-hmm.
Where you're really seeing each other, uh, and appreciating each other and, and, and holding a sort of sensitivity to each other's experience of the work. Um. Um, to sort of lay the groundwork for being able to do this work successfully as a [00:37:00] team and as a collective, because it is all about the team and collective.
There's no one person, not even the artist mm-hmm. That's solely responsible for these, for this work happening. Yeah. You know,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: I think that's something people they're gonna love hearing about is all of that. Um, do you have any fun or funny stories of projects you've worked on? Or, oh, fun or funny? It doesn't have to be.
Jackie von Treskow: Well, and it's so important to keep humor. Yeah, yeah. Um, I don't know if funny things happen they're, you know, on your side, but, well, I see some funny things that, I mean, I mean, maybe at the time they might not feel funny, but you know, like, this work is serious. Yes. Yeah. But it can be taken too serious.
Like it's. You know, like things are gonna happen. You have to be prepared. Mm-hmm. You have to be prepared and be nimble and, and reactive and, and just sort of like laugh when something's like, oh, well that's the one thing I would've never expected. Like, okay, you got me. Yeah. Universe, like planned for literally everything.
Yeah. Except for that one thing. I have not worked on a project where there hasn't been some wild curve ball. [00:38:00] Yeah. Like, you know, like, oh, this was like done and tested. Yeah, we're good. And then it's like two days later I get a call and this thing happens. I'm like. What the heck is going on here? Like, this is the last thing I expected to deal with.
I can't think of anything specific, but I do think I will just say to, to your question, it is important to give a sense of humor. Um, and, and like, you know, take, have, and really like value those moments of levity because it does sometimes feel so serious and important.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: It does, you know, because mission driven work kind of has that weight to it.
Um, and that can wear you down if you don't kind of. Keep that levity a little bit.
The time has come Okay. For you to ask the Magic eight ball. Oh my goodness. A yes or no question. Why does everyone feel like this is a lot of pressure? No offense to you.
You're a piece of plastic though.
Jackie von Treskow: And I purposely like, didn't watch like this. Like, I was like going back and looking at previous, um, you know, episodes. Mm-hmm. And I was like, I purposely didn't wanna see what other people were saying. And I'm like, mm-hmm. No, I kinda [00:39:00] wish,
Shawna Vesco Ahern: we'll just put it right there for you.
Give me a moment. No, that's, we can even cut this out, or we'll just keep it in. I wanna ask a question in the spirit of optimism, but then I'm scared.
Yeah, that worries me too. Whew.
Oh, just do it. Okay. We can do it.
Jackie von Treskow: Well, and you planted a seed about funding, but, mm-hmm. Okay.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Um, we could have it in our blooper reel if it goes wrong. Um,
I
Jackie von Treskow: don't know if I have a good question.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: You'll have to ask a bad one then. Okay. [00:40:00] Okay.
Jackie von Treskow: Okay. Will San Francisco get the credit it deserves as, I don't wanna call it a center, but as an important place for innovative avant garde, community based experiential, all the great things about the arts and and culture landscape here. Will San Francisco get its due deserves and credit?
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Okay, let's shake her.
Let's shake her and see.
Jackie von Treskow: Very doubtful. Oh no.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: You know why though? Wait. Well that's, maybe, that's okay. Maybe that's No because it's already gotten it. Okay, so you're, the tense you were asking was wrong. First of all, S-F-O-S-F-O just won that award and you're about to have a conversation with our colleagues at the SFO Museum. This is what I'm talking about.
Yeah. It can't. It can't in the future get It doesn't, you know, it's [00:41:00] already gott.
Jackie von Treskow: Yeah. And you know what? And it doesn't matter. We, and we don't care. We don't need, don't need, we don't need outside validation. We don't need validation from other places like Los Angeles and New York. London. Yeah.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Eight Ball.
You're right. And thank you for Yeah, we're our own thing. I'm proud of it. Thank you. Yeah, so much. Well, this was super fun.
Jackie von Treskow: Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to chat with you.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: Yeah, it was lovely to hear about your work and hear about you as a person. I. Absolutely dread making this into social media edits.
'cause everything that comes outta your mouth is golden. Oh, I appreciate that. For like a fun, happy, positive, utopian thing.
Jackie von Treskow: I feel we're, we're a kid, we're like kin in that. You have very similar Yeah, absolutely. Philosophically. Otherwise we're like, we're on it. Yeah. I don't think this is gonna be the last time we, we work somehow together.
Shawna Vesco Ahern: No, I doubt it. Thanks for listening to Art Yap. If you enjoyed this episode, the best way to support the show is to leave a rating or review. Share art Yap with a dreamer, a maker, a friend. Because good ideas are better when they don't end. For video trailers and [00:42:00] sneak peeks, follow us on Instagram at Art yap underscore podcast.
Until next time, keep imagining. Keep creating and keep yapping.